Thursday, July 26, 2012

The church has NOT replaced Israel!

           If you haven't heard of replacement theology yet, you probably will very soon. It's one of the doctrines of devils that are arising and gaining ground in these latter days, as the Bible prophesied (1st Timothy 4:1).

        Simply put, replacement theology is the notion that the Christian church has replaced Israel and is the new Israel. Those teaching this doctrine say that since Israel denied Jesus, the gospel and the kingdom of God turned forever to the Gentiles - and ONLY to the Gentiles - and now the saved Gentiles are the new Israel and will be the people who own and occupy Israel in the near future

        I can't think of a better way to state my case here than to simply copy and paste a discussion that happened on youtube some time ago between two commentors. We'll call the two commentors, "Israel Supporter" and "Israel Hater." The first comment was made by Israel Supporter in response to a video that suggested that the Jews currently living in Israel are all impostors and not the real Jews, and will be replaced in the future by the Christian church. Afterwards, Israel Hater responded to Israel Supporter's comment and the discussion went from there.

Edit: Actually, there IS a better way to prove that the church has not replaced Israel. There is a single verse that single-handedly proves that the church has not replaced Israel and here it is:

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Question: Who are the twelve tribes of Israel mentioned in that verse? If you say the "the church" then why do we have to be judged? Are we not the perfect body of Christ during his thousand year reign on earth? And, yes, that verse IS referring to the reign of Christ on earth after his return. So, why would the church have to be JUDGED? Answer: We won't be judged. The nation of Israel (and the righteous Gentile nations) will be judged during the millenial kingdom because even though Satan will be bound in hell for a thousand years, man can still sin.

At any rate, I will still show you the conversation that happened on youtube:


Israel Supporter:
It's interesting that when the Jews were in Nazi Germany, they were so readily acknowledged (and condemned) as Jews and couldn't have convinced anyone that they were NOT Jews. But the instant they get back to their homeland of Israel, they're suddenly "impostors." Hmmm, how does that work?

Israel Hater:
I know! It's sooooo easy to identify a Jew, you just ask them what they think of Jesus. If they hate him, then you've got your "Jew" You zionist scum!! Answer this: Let's say I was lost and wasn't a Christian. And let's say I became interested in Judaism, so I went back in my genealogy and found some Jewish blood, and then I cursed Christ, believed what the Jewish Talmud says about Christ that he's burning in eternal excrement, and that Mary was a whore, and I moved to that crappy hell hole desert which today is spiritual Sodom and Egypt according to the bible, I grew out some nasty side burn dreads, put on a stupid cap, started to hack flem everything (shalom you worthless goyim, by the way) and acted like I had autism and wailed at that stupid wall... If I did all that, you're saying I'd get saved?

Israel Supporter:
So, you ARE a Christian then, I take it? I have to say, you're not being a very good ambassador for Christ with that kind of attitude and that kind of language and communication.

        Anyway, get ready for a long answer.

        So, you're saying that the Jews' unbelief in Jesus and their rejection of the gospel of salvation by grace through faith in the shed blood of Jesus is what disqualifies them from being the Jews, right? The Bible is clear on two things: (1) That most of Israel would be brought back to the land of Israel in unbelief, (2) and that there has always been, and always will be, a believing remnant of Jews that believe in Jesus.

        Following are the passages that show us that the majority of the Jews will be brought back in unbelief:

        First up is Romans 11:25-30. This passage is also important for another reason: It shows us that God used the Jews' rejection of the gospel as a reason to give it to the Gentiles, so we Gentiles shouldn't be too haughty towards the Jews.

Romans 11:25-30
25. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27. for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.
29. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

        I emphasize verses 25 and 26. Israel will still yet be saved because at the end of Daniel's 70th week, aka the time of Jacob's trouble, aka the tribulation, as most call it, the Jews will realize that Jesus was always their redeemer and they will call upon him for salvation and he will show up and save them.

        Next, in Ezekiel chapter 36, God makes it clear that he's not bringing the Jews back to the homeland because of how good they are, but for his own namesake:

Ezekiel 36:19-24
19. And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.
20. And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land.
21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.
22. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

        Their unbelief is the whole reason for Daniel's 70th week, as I said before. Zechariah 12:10 shows us that at the end of Daniel's 70th week, the Jews will turn wholly to Jesus and realize he was their redeemer the whole time and that they had failed to recognize him as such. It also shows us that it will be the same line of Jews who had Jesus pierced on the cross that will realize this and mourn for what they have done to him. That means that that the lineage is physical and biological, not just spiritual.

Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

        Notice that it says "the inhabitants of Jerusalem." That means that up to the point that this verse takes place, the inhabitants of Jerusalem are still unbelieving for the most part. This is important, because there are a lot of who people think that the "true Jews" are still yet to be gathered to Israel and when they are, they will arrive already believing in Jesus. If that were the case, there would have been no reason for God to inspire Zechariah 12:10 in the Bible at all.

        Next, let's look at the passage that shows us that there has always been a remnant of Jews that accept Jesus as their saviour. I know it's a long block of scripture, but please read the whole thing:

Romans 11:1-11
1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3. Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8. (according as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
9. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: 10. let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

        Let me sum up all of that up: Israel has not been cast away because there is a remnant that believes in Jesus. God has temporarily turned the rest of Israel to blindness so the gospel could go to the Gentiles for a while, and then he'll use that to provoke the Jews to jealousy so they'll all turn to Jesus.

Israel Hater:
yep yep, right, go down deep stay down long, they're God's chosen people because we said so, so just shut up you worthless second class citizen dirty Greek goy.

Israel Supporter:
So, you're just going to completely ignore all of that scripture I gave you and continue blindly with your narrative?

Israel Hater:
You want scripture??? before going to Romans 11 I guess you don't know what it said in chapter 9.... Romans 9:6 "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:"

Israel Supporter:
You're demonstrating the dangers of taking one verse and making a doctrine out of it while ignoring the surrounding verses. Have you ever read past verse 6 of Romans 9? If you had, you would see that when it says that not all who are in Israel are of Israel, it's talking about Ishmael and Esau and their descendants. It says that merely being a descendant of Abraham is not what makes one of Israel because that would make Ishmael and the arabs part of Israel. It also says that merely being a descendant of Isaac does not make one a part of Israel because that would include the descendant of Esau, the Edomites. Only being a descendant of Jacob makes one truly one of the earthly nation of Israel. Born to Abraham were Ishmael and Isaac. Ishmael was born of the flesh (and a lack of faith in God), Isaac was born of a promise from God. From Ishmael descended the Arabs (who are today wrongly claiming rights to Israel). Then to Isaac were born Esau and Jacob. God hated Esau (who was a type of Satan and from whom descended the Edomites), but loved Jacob, from whom descended the Jews. Paul is pleading with the Jews to realize they are a very special people to God and he wished they would turn to the gospel without having to suffer as they are going to suffer.

Romans 9:6-13
6. Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7. neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
10. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11. (for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12. it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

        Here's something else from Romans 9 you might be interested in, since you pointed out that the Bible says Israel is spiritually Sodom and Egypt. Because there has always been a remnant of believers among the Jews, they have not been, and will never be, totally wiped out and forgotten as Sodom and Gomorrha were:

Romans 9:27-29
27. Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
28. for he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
29. And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

        Just curious: Are you one of those replacement theology supporters who thinks that the Christian church has replaced Israel and is going to "march to Zion!" to inhabit Israel?

Israel Hater:
I don't think they've been replaced by the church, I KNOW they have. Matthew 21:43 "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." Matthew 21:38 "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." Hmmm... If I were to give you something, and then were to take it away and give it to someone else, I'd say you just got replaced son! Ohhhh!

Israel Supporter:
Again, the ~majority~ of Israel was turned to blindness, but the remnant always believed the gospel and always partook of the kingdom of God. Again, I point out this scripture that I pointed out before:

Romans 11:5-7
5. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

        And as far as the Kingdom of God being "given to a nation bring for the fruits thereof" goes, he simply meant that the fruitful works of the Holy Spirit (chiefly, the spreading of the gospel of grace) would be turned over the Gentiles for 2,000 years before God's focus returned to the Jews. In this next passage we see that Israel will be scattered for 2,000 years (two days by God's timeline) before being brought back:

Hosea 6:1-3
1. Come, and let us return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2. After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
3. Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

        This can't possibly be talking about the church because the church has not been smitten by God and scattered for 2,000 years. And, yes, the "two days" mentioned in verse 2 does mean 2,000 years:

2nd Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

        Also, there are all sorts of other things that prove that the Christian church will not replace Israel.

        Gabriel told Daniel that 70 weeks were determined for his people, which were the Jews:

Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

        Sixty nine (69) of these weeks happened before Jesus was crucified:

Daniel 9:25-26
25. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

        The Christian church obviously had nothing to do with the first sixty nine weeks. Here's the important part: the 70th week has not happened yet. It's still a future event. The people who went through the first 69 weeks (the Jews) are the ones who will go through the seventieth week. Therefore, the Jews clearly are going to come back into God's focus again. Like I have been saying over and over, the Jews are going through Daniel's 70th week, aka the tribulation, which will turn the rest of Israel to Jesus. Well, those that survive, I should say. Two thirds of the Jews are going to be destroyed during Daniel's 70th week (Zechariah 13:8).

        Also, the Bible makes it very clear that Israel will never cease to be a nation before God forever:

Jeremiah 31:35-37
35. Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36. If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37. Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

        He said this long before the Christian church ever existed, so he's not talking to the church here. He's talking to the nation of Israel. In other words, Israel will never cease from being a nation forever.

        And this next passage single-handedly proves that the Christian church has not replaced Israel:

Ezekiel 39:22-27
22. So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward.
23. And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
24. According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
25. Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name; 26. after that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid. 27. When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

        That passage comes after the war of Ezekiel chapter 38,  which is still a FUTURE event. That passage shows that only AFTER that war and from that day forward will Israel realize that Jesus is their Lord. So, it CAN'T be talking about the Christian church, because Christians already know that Jesus is Lord NOW. In fact, you can't become a Christian unless you acknowledge that Jesus is Lord. So, if it isn't talking about the church, it could only be talking about the nation of Israel that's over there in unbelief now, because they don't admit yet that Jesus is their Lord.

        Notice that in verse 23 it mentions Israel having gone into captivity and in verse 27 it mentions them being brought out of their enemies' lands. Following are some more prophecies in the Bible that prove that the people brought back to the land of Israel in the 1940's were definitely the Jews. In these next passages, we see that God said he was going to bring Israel back from a country in the north (Germany). And he said he would bring them back on ships from Tarshish. Tarshish is Britain, and it was on British ships that the Jews were brought back to their land out of Germany and other countries from the north. Also, he said that he would recompense their sins upon them double before he brought them back. This was Hitler killing 6 million of them (the Jews) off before they were returned to Israel.

The Jews brought back to Israel on the ships of Tarshish:

Isaiah 60:9-10
9. Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the Lord thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee.
10. And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee.

        And for proof that Tarshish is Britain, here's a good link:

Proof that Tarshish is Britain

The Jews brought back from the north country (Germany):

Jeremiah 31:7-10
7. For thus saith the Lord; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O Lord, save thy people, the remnant of Israel.
8. Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.
9. They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.
10. Hear the word of the Lord, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.

Israel punished before being brought back from the north country:

Jeremiah 16:15-18
14. Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall no more be said, The Lord liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
15. But, The Lord liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.
16. Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the Lord, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.
17. For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes.
18. And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their detestable and abominable things.

        Does the Holocaust ring a bell? Hitler? 6 million Jews killed? Hello?

        And then, even after having their iniquity doubled upon them and 6 million of them being killed off, when they get back in their land and they're still in unbelief. That's why God said that he's going to purge the "dross" from them. The dross means the rebels, the unbelievers. Again, that's what Daniel's 70th week is for. That's what the book of the Revelation is for. The Jews are a stiff-necked people (Exodus 32:9) who need strong signs to believe anything (1st Corinthians 1:22).

Purging the dross:

Ezekiel 22:18-22
18. Son of man, the house of Israel is to me become dross: all they are brass, and tin, and iron, and lead, in the midst of the furnace; they are even the dross of silver.
19. Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because ye are all become dross, behold, therefore I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem.
20. As they gather silver, and brass, and iron, and lead, and tin, into the midst of the furnace, to blow the fire upon it, to melt it; so will I gather you in mine anger and in my fury, and I will leave you there, and melt you.
21. Yea, I will gather you, and blow upon you in the fire of my wrath, and ye shall be melted in the midst thereof.
22. As silver is melted in the midst of the furnace, so shall ye be melted in the midst thereof; and ye shall know that I the Lord have poured out my fury upon you.

        And here we see that this purge happens during Daniel's 70th week, aka the tribulation:

Zechariah 13:8-9
8. And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

        And one last thing: The land of Israel was completely barren when the Jews moved back. God said in the Bible that when he moved them back to their land, that it would spring back to life, and it has. Notice in the following verses that in verse 11 it says God will give them back their OLD estates.

Ezekiel 36:9-11 & 30
9. For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:
10. And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:
11. And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
30. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

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